A.I. - Can Computers Think?

Discussion in 'General Artificial Intelligence Discussions' started by C0B01, Aug 6, 2006.

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  1. C0B01

    C0B01 New Member

    To begin with I feel it is imperative to clear up a miss conception of Artificial Intelligence. AI is in fact not about the creation of artificially intelligent machines, it is the field of creating machines that are able to think rationally. Given sensory inputs the artefact is capable of producing a relative, rational response. A specific chain of events that ended in the result of the output; an event that may not have been programmed specifically for, in contrast to the single lined approach of traditional do-this do-that computational methods. So straight off, can computers think? My answer, in contrast to all those I asked is, yes they can.

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    - C0B01
    ( C0B01s Website )
     
  2. matttheaiguy

    matttheaiguy New Member

    So you want to create an artificial Vulcan?

    And logic can't explain everything, nor can it create anyhting new. Besides, humans are non-rational beings, so that may be a requirement for intelligence.
     
  3. C0B01

    C0B01 New Member


    That makes absolutly no sence in regards to a reply to what I originally posted...
     
  4. matttheaiguy

    matttheaiguy New Member

    I apologize if I skipped a couple steps in my reasoning. I'll try to explain it better.

    To be rational is to decide something logically. Economics uses a model of perfect rationality, but they assume that the agents in their models have every relevant piece of information and infinite time in order to make their choice. Thus, they always make the optimal choice.

    You say that we must make AI's rational. I think this is a bad idea. Anyone can rationalize murder, or any other crime, just as they can rationalize charity.

    Humans aren't even rational creatures. If you think we are, I suggest taking a course in epistemology, of the philosophy of knowledge. You'd be surprised at what you'll learn there. Using logic, you can't even prove that just because something has always happened one way (the sun rising in the east) that it will continue to occur. Yet we believe it to be so, thus our non-rationality.

    Our brains don't even seem to be discrete computers (in the traditional sense), but non-linear, dynamic ones. I think that while rationality does have its place, it's not the panacea of AI in and of itself.

    Matt
     
  5. C0B01

    C0B01 New Member

    No I didnt state that as a 'we must'.

    If you had read it all you would have seen that i clearly stated humans arnt rational.


    Thats not science, thats philosophy. And yes it is true it wont always happen, one day the sun will eventually burn out, and supernova.
     
  6. Frenchie

    Frenchie New Member

    Hey there guys, I've been reading your posts (I’m quite gutted you stopped arguing actually, that was quite interesting) :) Would you agree that there might be some semantic definitions to address for the philosophy of AI to progress? For example, the idea of rationality can be quite loose, and vary a lot between two given people
     
  7. matttheaiguy

    matttheaiguy New Member

    Defining the terms used in a problem can easily change the problem itself. Though I'm not saying that it will fix the problem. I've been working on my own set of definitions on my blog that work well for both natural and artificial intelligence. I just wish I had more of a psychology background for this.

    Matt
     
  8. Jay

    Jay New Member

    What is the difference?
     
  9. sjatkins

    sjatkins Guest

    Rationality is systematically making the best choices possible for achieving goals in the face of limited information, time and brain/computational power. It is not about being a "Vulcan". Most of us recognize that much of what we do is way suboptimal for achieving our goals at least some of the time. Does that make rationality or more optimal ways of making choices undesirable or somehow inhuman? I don't think so.
     
  10. nikomaster

    nikomaster New Member

    AI is just a series of programing algorithms, some are biological based,the idea of a machine thinking and taking desicions is merely an idea ,because the real sutff ocurs just like the creator want, so if computer can think? Computer just responses to a program algorithm or structure. Althougts some people believes an emulation of the brain can not act as the brain does ,an Artificial Neural Network is the best aproximation ,they responses are very similar to the brain, but they dont think just they take the resources from they training.
     
  11. zouze

    zouze New Member

    very interesting topic you got here. I think creating an artificial life is possible. I believe that consiousness can be mimicked by a series of computer algorithm...an extensive research on this can do the the trick that is why...i have thought of a project to research on this...pls support the project by donating small amount of money through my website.
     
  12. 8pla.net

    8pla.net New Member

    Yes. An algorithm is a computer program (or set of programs) that is designed to systematically solve a certain kind of problem. So, it is fair to say that a computer can think. A simple example is programming a chase and evade algorithm into a computer and it will think at least as much as an insect can think.

    Of course the environment is virtual for the computer which is different from the natural environment of the insect. But for example, the environment of an octopus is different than that of a cat, and yet they express closely related levels of intelligence. An octopus that watches another octopus in another fish tank, unscrew the lid off a jar to get the food, just by watching can learn and perform the same task instantly.

    There are of course far more intelligent algorithms, than chase and evade AI, such as in medical devices to diagnose disease, target acquisition systems and space craft control. It is fair to say that an EKG machine thinks you have heart disease and presents this conclusion to the physician. It is fair to say that the elevator that seems to be waiting for you as soon as you press the button each day and the doors open right away, thinks it knows the traffic pattern you use each day (Reinforced Learning).

    The simple answer is that computers can think.
     
  13. zouze

    zouze New Member

    I think computers can think with the aid of AI programs.
     
  14. Jeffery Cloyd

    Jeffery Cloyd New Member

    I would disagree that we can't rationally prove that the best guess is that the sun will rise in the east. If you have a given sample set of data, and every point in the set represent the same result, it's rational to assume that the next random point will be the same. We can't PROVE that it will be the same, but we can safely assume so.
     
  15. timlisten123

    timlisten123 New Member

    computers can't think, but humans do. They can program it so computers can think.
     
  16. Jeffery Cloyd

    Jeffery Cloyd New Member

    sjatkins has a very good point. Most people do not behave rationally most of the time. I believe the reason for this is that people, unlike machines, have a very loose set of goals, and the goals can disappear as quickly as they appear. When the goals are not well defined, it is hard to behave rationally. When machines can think freely enough to make their own goals, we will be well on the way to singularity.
     
  17. Jeffery Cloyd

    Jeffery Cloyd New Member

    The idea of using artificial intelligence in the financial industry is pretty interesting. Still, when it comes to financial matters human reasoning can be flawed - it can sometimes see solutions that are not easily calculated by reason alone.
     

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